How Working with Sponsors can Energize your Projects with Charmaine Hammond

Kathi: Hi everyone. I am back and I'm with Charmaine Hammond. She's a certified speaking professional. You're going to learn all that and hear that she truly is through this interview. So welcome to the show, Charmaine.

Charmaine: Thank you so much, Kathi. Looking forward to the conversation today.

Kathi: It's good to have you on the show. You've been speaking for quite a long time. How did you get into that? What's the backstory of how you became a speaker? And also, we'll talk about sponsorship a little bit later. Let's hear your backstory a little bit.

Charmaine: Well, the backstory actually started out in jail. I was a correctional officer after I finished high school. I worked in the correctional system for about 10 years. And then when we moved to another city, the jail in the city that we moved to wasn't actually open. So I needed to go find a new career. I ran a nonprofit organization, worked for health, and in the meantime I went back to school and got a master's degree in conflict analysis and management. And then shortly thereafter, I got certified as a mediator and opened up my own mediation, dispute resolution and training company. And that's where I started getting into training and speaking, about 30 years ago now.

Kathi: Wow. So the jail was closed. You need to close all the jails, in my opinion.

Charmaine: There were a lot of people in the community that could have easily filled it, but it wasn't open for business at the time.

Kathi: What were you doing in the jail?

Charmaine: I was a correctional officer. So a jail guard, yes.

Kathi: Okay. So that probably had a lot of mediation happening with it, didn't it?

Charmaine: It did. It did. And a lot of de-escalation, a lot of negotiation skills to keep the inmates and the staff safe and just to get through having a good 12-hour shift. And it was when I left the correctional system that I actually found that I was missing the process of how people come together in a really difficult conversation and figure out a solution together. And that's what spurred me on to go get trained as a mediator. And of course, all the skills that I had working in corrections, being able to respond in violent situations, deal with some really nasty conflicts, came in very handy when I became a mediator.

Kathi: It's so funny. I think a lot of times for us entrepreneurs, we bring forward all the past skills that we've had and then combine them into what we love. Do you consider what you're doing now your dharma? Is that what your life has progressed towards naturally, and you feel like this is the skin I'm in?

Charmaine: Yes. Yes. I love speaking and training. I know that even growing up, I always had this tendency to be the natural mediator and the facilitator of problem solving, not necessarily my own, but for other people. And I just enjoyed the process of challenging situations coming to a healthy closure. And now, in the work I do in corporations and government and business, I'm really passionate about making sure that people look forward to Mondays, that Sundays are not full of panic attacks as the workday comes upon them. Conflict really creates a lot of stress for people.

Kathi: It really does. And everybody handles it differently. Some people would run away, some people would cower. I can see little Charmaine on the playground going, "Okay, Joey, don't hit Sally."

Charmaine: Well, you're absolutely right, Kathi, that we all have these different tendencies in how we respond to conflict. And sometimes that'll depend on who the situation is with and what the conflict is about. But some people have a natural tendency to avoid conflict. Other people have a natural tendency to almost become competitive. It's my way or the highway. Other people tend to be more of that collaborative, let's-work-on-a-solution-together approach. And then you've got some folks who really just want to strive for a compromise. Let's meet in the middle. And the key is to figure out what your style is and be able to shape it differently, so that when you're in conversations with people who have a style that's different than your own, you don't keep hitting roadblocks.

The key is to figure out what your style is and be able to shape it differently.

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Kathi: Yeah, I can see that totally. There's DISC and there's all the different personality analysis tools. Do you use those frequently whenever you walk into a corporate environment or a situation?

Charmaine: A lot of the companies that I work for have taken DISC or Myers-Briggs or True Colors, and they're great to help people understand personality. One of the tools that I love to help understand how we work, how we approach work, and where we get into conflict is a working style inventory. It's an oldie but a goodie. And then the conflict instrument I love to use is the Thomas-Kilmann instrument. It's a fantastic tool to help people determine what their predominant reaction or response to conflict is. And when we understand more about ourselves, it's easier to understand more about each other.

Kathi: And we can see it in each other, too. We can see that, oh, that's not me. Oh yeah, that's Joey.

Charmaine: Yes. Exactly.

Kathi: Oh, that's very interesting. So what's your most common scenario? When do people call you in and hire you?

Charmaine: Now, I don't mediate. I focus purely on training and speaking, and bring all of those skills and experiences and case studies into the work I do as a speaker and trainer. I find that for speaking and training, there are a couple of very common scenarios where I get called in. One scenario is old conflict that has continued to resurface. We're seeing a lot of that post-COVID. These old conflicts that people thought were gone and buried have just cropped up again. Another scenario is where the leader has attempted to address the issue and it has gone sideways, and the leader has determined that perhaps the whole team, including the leader, would benefit from some guidance around conflict resolution and training on the skills. And then the third scenario that I get called in a lot for is where teams are being challenged. So a team that's going through a lot of change, for example, a team that has had a lot of disruption. That might be new people coming in, staff retiring, changes, restructuring, and helping them learn the skills together around conflict. And sometimes the leader or the organization wants to have me facilitate what we call a team charter, which is really a facilitated process to help the team figure out how they're going to work better together.

Kathi: It's like a team mission or a team vision. I bet you have been busy, girl, because my clients, the ones that are working in corporate, are still in shock. Some people are in the office, some people are out of the office. No one's around. The people that are in don't know what they're doing. It's been a crazy ride. So you've probably been in big demand.

Charmaine: It's interesting to hear the scenarios of what workplaces are dealing with right now. A lot of them are having significant not only change, but structural change. So the working environment is different. The mission of the organization may have changed as a result of the pandemic. And then we have other teams that are just so excited to be working back together and being in the office. And then we have teams that are still trying to figure it out. They're still in a state of flux. And we know that when organizations go through any type of change, it is very likely that conflict will emerge. Sometimes that's how we respond and cope with change. Not all of us welcome it. Not all of us have great skills to deal with change. And then inevitably, conflict starts to bubble up.

Kathi: Absolutely. Tell me a post-pandemic client situation. Give me a story.

Charmaine: Well, one scenario that I can think of was an organization that had gone through a lot of internal change, so some people working from home, some people in the office, but this particular team had also amalgamated with another team. And it was an interesting amalgamation because, with both of the teams, both of the departments, it didn't appear on the surface that there was clear alignment for these two teams to be matched. However, as time went on, it became very apparent. But what had happened is that one of the teams that was amalgamating was very seasoned. These were people that had worked together for a very long time, several of them approaching retirement. So there was a really strong footing with the team. They were able to just look at each other and know what each other meant or was thinking or was feeling. And the team that was coming in to join them was a team of newer employees. It was a newer team in the organization, so they didn't have years and years of working together to build their structure and build those relationships. So there was a lot of, I'm going to use the word apprehension. Just this distant apprehension between people. And you could actually feel it when I went in to do some training. You could feel an odd energy. And what we determined was that the team never had time to build relationships. The amalgamation happened during COVID, when everyone was working from home. So they only saw each other on whatever platform they were using, Zoom or Teams, and they never had those inter-office connections: being in the same room, popping down the hallway, meeting at the coffee station. And so what became really clear is that this team actually just needed to do some team building before they got into some of the heavier work. And then we did some training with them around communication, because it also became really apparent that these two groups communicated very differently, and part of that was the relationships that existed. So communication, and lack thereof, was one of their biggest sources of frustration. And so we did a shortened version of a team charter, where the team created it and agreed to how they were going to work together, how they were going to handle some of those challenging, tough conversations, what they expected of each other, and then how they were going to continue to build team together. And this is a team now where the advantage of being trained together is that they're all working from the same set of reference, the same language, and they all went through this together. That being said, not everyone responds with excitement to conflict resolution training, because sometimes training brings up triggers for people. And so it was also a really good opportunity for the team to actually build relationships through the training process.

Kathi: And they're hopefully in person doing this at this point.

Charmaine: Yes, correct. I think they have a bit of a hybrid situation, but some of the things that still happen as a group in person are their regular team meetings, and they have those weekly now, which has really allowed more opportunity for the team to build trust. Because there were two groups and two different levels of trust. Each group trusted their own group, but they hadn't yet formed the bridge to trust each other.

Kathi: Right. So do you do team building activities and all that as well?

Charmaine: We do. We do. And even in training, when I do training programs, I always build in interactive, experiential training. So we're not just talking role plays, which generally scare people anyhow. We're talking different opportunities to practice and to build confidence with the skills. Role plays might be one of those ways, but we also do other activities so that individuals are learning about themselves and learning about their colleagues.

Kathi: Yeah. And they can throw away their feels and fears and just have a little bit of fun and get insight on each other.

Charmaine: Exactly.

Kathi: I can see how you would be invaluable. I worked for the port, and they had combined the marketing and communications department. I was called in. There wasn't someone like you, which could have been very, very useful, because again, I could tell that there were two completely different dynamics going on between marketing and communications. You would think that it would be congealed, but it really was challenging, and obviously I was there for other things than conflict resolution. I think anytime there's any type of a shift in a corporate structure, there's always going to be that tension. There's always going to be, who's doing what? Oh, they know it better than I, or they think they know it better than I. I can see how your service is completely valuable for any corporation going through change. And when it comes to smaller companies, because I know a lot of our people that are listening here are women entrepreneurs and solopreneurs who are building small teams, is there any advice that you would give them as they are starting to build and enlarge their company?

Charmaine: Yes. Yes. I love how you said, as you're building and enlarging your company. Often we get so wrapped up in all the tasks of doing that, and then we don't take the time we need to nurture the team, to help build the team. And then when some kind of crisis or big challenge comes up, the team will often become very frazzled and fragmented very quickly. And then this leader or this small business owner is trying to figure out what's going on and pick up the pieces. So I always say, don't just do team building when the team is doing great or the team is falling apart. We need to do this on an ongoing basis, to help teams be resilient. The other piece that's important for small business owners is that often they don't have a support system. They don't have an HR department they can go and talk to. They don't have perhaps their own counselors or coaches. So it's very important for small business owners to find their circle of trusted alliances. This could be colleagues, this could be a mastermind group, it could be a coach, but make sure that as a business owner, you have the support to be able to get guidance on issues that you might be struggling with, because sometimes it's not the team that needs to help with that. And then the other piece of advice is to take time to learn about team building and conflict resolution skills. Most of us as humans have less than two hours of training on conflict. Yet as a company owner, if you have a team, I can promise you you're going to have disagreements between people. That's life. It's what happens. And leaders are often fearful of upsetting the apple cart. They don't want to make things worse, and they often might avoid the conflict, or they may not feel that they have the skills to handle it, so they avoid it. And I've got a great quote. It's not my own, but an individual once said that conflict is not like wine. It doesn't get better with age. So you've got to deal with it quickly. Leaders and small business owners can get that kind of guidance and training so that they feel comfortable and empowered when they need to deal with situations that are messy and bumpy.

Don't just do team building when the team is doing great or the team is falling apart.

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Kathi: Yeah, that's really good advice. Grab it by the horns, deal with it as it presents itself, and get the tools to learn how to do it. That's what I'm hearing you say, and I agree. You don't really get trained in that. Just like people don't really get trained to get organized, people don't get trained to resolve conflict. And every business owner is different. There are some business owners that won't do any conflict at all, and then heaven forbid if something arises with their team.

Charmaine: Yes. Well, and I think the area that you work in, Kathi, and what you speak and train on as well, is so critical. Because when I go into teams, one of the exercises we often do is called the pebble exercise. I tell a story about going for a walk, and you've got this tiny little pebble in your shoe, and you don't take your shoe off, and you keep walking. And 15 minutes in, all you can think about is the stupid pebble in your stupid shoe. This is the thought process that goes on, and that little pebble feels like a boulder. And in business, we need to take care of those little pebbles so they don't become boulders. And one of the common frustrations I hear in workplaces is about lack of organization. We can't find what we were looking for. What is the system or the process? So the work that you do is highly related to preventing some of those unnecessary conflicts that didn't need to happen in the first place.

In business, we need to take care of those little pebbles so they don't become boulders.

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Kathi: Yeah, I agree. And in fact, what I'm usually called in for is to get everybody on the same page with the file protocol. Someone is gone from work. Can Susie come in and find the file that Janie had? Everybody makes their own little system, and then the only person who knows it is that perfect admin out there who is now out sick.

Charmaine: That's right. You're describing my past life, when I had my mediation office. That's me. I file it under what makes sense that day. It doesn't make sense on Monday.

Kathi: Exactly. And then anybody else coming in is like, what was Charmaine thinking? What would she have called that?

Charmaine: Yes. Exactly. Exactly.

Kathi: The average entrepreneur will waste three hours a week trying to find missing documents. It adds up over a month, a year.

Charmaine: That's unbelievable. And then you tack on the frustration and the emotional toll that it takes on us. My team member has all the skills that I lack. She's a very systematic thinker, very process-oriented, and she creates systems and standards of practice for pretty much everything in my other company. And I've got to say, it's so refreshing, because I can find everything. It doesn't matter what I think it's called, I can find it. And the other piece is that loops don't stay open. She's exceptionally skilled at closing the loops, or holding me accountable to close the loops that I need to close. And that's really important, because it's some of those elements that cause frustrations in the workplace, especially in small businesses when companies are doing more with less. And when we can handle those and get the organization you're talking about, we really reduce the stress for people. We make it easier for them to work together.

Kathi: Yeah, because when you're stressed out, you can't really think clearly. So, speaking of stressed out and these situations, talk to me about a time when you really were feeling down and things just weren't happening for you. Give me a little story about what you went through. I like to do this on the podcast, Charmaine, because we all go through the ups and downs, the highs and lows. And when you hear about people who are very successful like yourself, who've also hit the bump, hit the rut, fallen off the horse or whatever, it helps to hear that other people have gone through it, and what you've done to pull yourself out of it.

Charmaine: Oh, so many times that I can relate to that. I think probably the most profound learning, where I had to really change things around, was when we moved from one community to another. It was a really big move. I was closing down offices to relocate in another community, so there was a lot of grief and a lot of feeling of loss and change. But I found when I got situated, I just felt like I was spinning my wheels. I didn't have, what would I call them, routines that give you an anchor.

Kathi: Right. Yeah.

Charmaine: I didn't have the anchor yet. And what I found was without that anchor, I wasted so much time just spinning my wheels. And then I found that I would work on the things that jazzed me. So the fun tasks, which generally don't pay the bills, by the way. Creating all kinds of things that never got to completion. Where this became apparent was a couple of years after that, when I found that I had two half-written books in my computer, and I thought, how did that loop not get closed? And what I discovered is that I actually really like routine and structure. Even though I might buck it and push it, I actually function best when I have routine and structure. But it took me a while to figure that out. And it also forced me to look at all kinds of things in my business that are not my highest skill set, for example. And maybe I will function best if I focus on what my genius is, and hire people who have the genius that I don't have, and let them do that. And when I figured that out, it was like firecrackers in the sky. You've got it. You've figured it out. That was just a pivotal change. But recognizing it didn't come quickly.

Kathi: Yeah, I get it. I can't believe you had two unfinished books. Now you've been an 11-times bestselling author, friend. How do you manage to do that with all your time?

Charmaine: I know. I'm probably like a lot of people listening. You get these bursts of creativity or energy around something, and then you start it and you work hard on it, and then something else pulls you away. I call it BSO, bright shiny object syndrome, that a lot of us face in business.

Kathi: Squirrels.

Charmaine: Yes. Squirrels. Exactly. And again, that's where those systems and processes and organization come in. With my team member, we use Asana as one of our project management tools, because it's simple. It's Charmaine-proof.

Kathi: You can't break it.

Charmaine: No. And I love it. It sends me little reminders. It keeps everything in there. We have links to the documents. So it really helps with the organization, but it also helps with holding myself accountable.

Kathi: Yeah, I love that. So when you have a big success, and this is my year of celebration, how do you celebrate success? When you got to that 10th bestselling book, not your 11th, your 10th, what did you do?

Charmaine: Well, I'm a big proponent of happy dancing. So often if I get off a call or land a new project or client or launch something, I like having that physical release of happy dancing. Then typically I run and tell my husband the good news, not once but 10 times in 10 different ways. And then I celebrate with people who were part of that, even if it was a project I did on my own. It's the people who gave me ideas. It's the people who listened to me when I was frustrated. I go and share that with them. And so those tend to be the types of celebrations. They all have to do with people. Going out and shopping, things like that, doesn't feel celebratory for me. So it's always something to do with people.

Kathi: Ah, a people person. When you were talking earlier about how you just want to do the stuff that's fun, it reminded me of the Mark Twain quote: if you have to eat a frog, eat it first thing in the morning.

Charmaine: Yes. Exactly.

Kathi: That's what we all need to do. Although it's more fun to do other things, for sure.

Charmaine: Exactly. Exactly. Do the toughest things when you have the most amount of energy.

Kathi: Yeah. And I was thinking about that quote a lot lately, because the very top of the day is not when I'm most productive. So I'm going to have to argue with Mark about that. I would eat the frog at one or two in the afternoon. That's when I'm on fire and jamming out. I'm sure when you work with teams, you have some people who, if it's a 9:00 a.m. meeting, are half comatose, and some people who have been up for six hours. So how do you work with that dynamic? That seems like it would be a bit of a challenge.

Charmaine: Yes, absolutely. I think one of the things that's important is to have a way of bringing the group together, and I do this with different activities and exercises, so everyone is on the same energy. Because you'll have people who call themselves not a morning person, and then you have other people who say they function best starting at 6:00 a.m. And so when we can find a way of uniting everybody, getting them on the same page, as you said earlier, they're going to do whatever it is they're doing much better. And it's also about understanding that about each other. One of the teams I worked with had a couple of people who were clearly not morning persons. That was the hunch that I had when I walked into the room. But it was being perceived by the team as, oh, they're disengaged. They don't want to be here. Oh, they don't care. So there were some pretty big assumptions going on. And when we had a chance to do a bit of an exercise, these two individuals said, I don't do well in mornings. If I could start my workday at 10 and work till six, I'd be great. And other people were saying, six? You want to end at six? I'm doing dinner with my family then. And so it was important to talk about the differences, that our way isn't necessarily everyone else's way.

Kathi: That's fantastic. So if you had to look back, I've been asking what you would tell your 18-year-old self. If you had to give your 18-year-old self some advice right now, what would you tell her?

Charmaine: Ooh, that's a good question. I think the advice I would give is not to struggle with things too long. Allow yourself a little bit of struggle time, because often in that moment of struggle is where we come up with our best solutions. But don't struggle at the sake of hurting a project or creating a negative impact. Just ask for help. That was my biggest struggle in the early days of opening my businesses: asking for help. And it actually took one of my staff becoming very frustrated with me. He made a comment one day. He said, "Why don't you just ask us for help? You have capable, qualified, caring people, and we see you struggling. Ask us." And they were offering, and I would say, "Oh no, I'm good." And when he shared how that impacted him, he said, "When you say, no, I'm good, I hear that as you don't want my help. You don't think my help is good enough. You don't think I'm capable." And I thought, oh, that's not what I meant at all. And that's when it changed for me. Again, the big firecrackers in the sky. I realized that my trying to do things on my own was actually causing a negative impact for people I care deeply about.

Kathi: That's profound advice. The fact that you already had staff in place, obviously you're a good judge of character, to have the staff that's there to support you to begin with. And to have someone say, oh, you don't think I'm good enough to help you, and you're just off in your own world dealing with the sledgehammer of your own challenges. I think that's a common scenario. If people were looking to hire, I have a few clients who have three or four employees and they're getting ready to onboard other people. What would be your advice for how to discern the right person for the right job?

Charmaine: Oh, I love that question. There is a tendency for us, when we recruit team members, to look for people just like us, because we like us and we want to work with us. And so I love it when I see small business owners, even if they are hiring their first contractor, 0.25 of a contractor, for example, look at what skill sets they don't have. Those are some of the skills that you want to be able to hire out for, because if you always hire people who have the same strengths and abilities as you, there is a whole part of your business not being nurtured. The other piece, and this is really important, is that I really encourage people to not only hire based on skill, but also based on personality. For example, I've seen so many organizations and businesses and nonprofits and small businesses who will hire someone because of their technical skills. They have everything they need to do the job, but they don't fit in. They're not a team player. They don't know how to handle conflict. So there are all these explosions all the time, every time there's a problem. And so we need to balance those. I would strongly suggest good interview questions, what we call open-ended behavioral descriptive questions. So don't ask, what would you do if, because we can all just make up the perfect answer. Ask, tell me about a time when. Much like your questions today, Kathi. Those are behavioral descriptive questions. Always ask a question about conflict. Always ask a question like, tell me about a time that you made a mistake, and how did you deal with that? Because a lot of times people really want to impress the person they are being interviewed by. And we know people will make mistakes. We make mistakes as company owners. How they handle it is really important.

If you always hire people who have the same strengths and abilities as you, there is a whole part of your business not being nurtured.

Kathi: Yeah, that's really sage advice. Really good. For those out there listening, I hope you're taking notes about this, because this is very important as you onboard somebody. We do have a tendency to hire people that we like. When I work with people on time management, it's like, what do you have to do? What do you want to do? What do you hate doing? What can you not do? Let's job out what you hate and what you can't do. Why go there? You're in charge of your own ship, so why do stuff you hate? Life's too short for that. Then you lose the joy in your company. And those who do the things you hate typically aren't going to be like you. They don't even think like you, which is a good thing.

Charmaine: Exactly.

Kathi: Okay. So here's a new twist on a question. Your five-year-old self: what would your five-year-old self tell you now, Charmaine? What advice would your five-year-old give you about your life?

Charmaine: My five-year-old would probably come bursting into a room with colorful toys and a ball, saying, "Stop. It's time to play. Take a break." Because I love what I do. It doesn't feel like work. And you can very quickly put in a lot of hours. I bought a Fitbit so that it forced me to recognize it. My wrist vibrates every 50 minutes to tell me to get up, and when I'm done the podcast with you, I get up and I do my steps. I could become rooted when I'm engrossed in something that I love to do. And that's what the five-year-old would say. Come on, step away. Time to play. Time for a break.

Kathi: Yeah. I think that's what every five-year-old would tell any of us. Mine would say, "Where are your bubbles? Let's go blow some bubbles for a little while." That's so funny. It's a good question. Okay, so you have something valuable for these kiddos here who are listening and for our esteemed entrepreneurial audience. What would you like to offer them?

Charmaine: Well, I'm happy to hop on a call with people. I'm happy to set up a discovery call, and you can just email me. Let me know that you heard about me through Kathi's podcast. That's important. And then the other piece is that we have some amazing ebooks that I would be happy to send the links to Kathi for, that can help people with not only building relationships and navigating conflict, but also learning how to work collaboratively with other businesses and other organizations.

Kathi: I love that. That's very valuable. And what I'll do is put the links below so that you folks can grab the link, and definitely grab the call with Charmaine. That's hugely valuable. That's worth a lot of money, and very gracious of you. Is there anything that you wanted to talk about that we've not discussed here?

Charmaine: One of the links I'll send you is for a film called Back Home Again, which I'm the executive producer of. And I raise that because the film was created to be a conversation starter about mental health. For a lot of organizations right now, it doesn't matter if it's a one-person business or a large corporation, mental health has really been impacted for people during the pandemic. The film is based on a community in Canada that went through an extremely expensive and impactful forest fire in 2016, and the film is based on that story. The characters in the forest are all little animals, and they're voiced by an incredible voice cast of celebrities who all contributed their time and voice to the movie: Michael J. Fox, Martin Short, Kim Basinger, Ed Asner, and the list goes on. And I would love people to take a look at the film. It's a 30-minute film, so it's not a big time commitment, but it really challenges us to think about the importance of community connection, coming together to support one another during difficult times, and taking time to nurture our own mental health or well-being.

Kathi: Well, congratulations. That's your life encompassed into a film. I can't wait to watch it. So you're going to send the link for this?

Charmaine: I will. I will send you the link for that.

Kathi: Oh, I can't wait. Okay, that's going to be really good. We'll put the link below in the show notes as well for you folks. And if you can't find the links, if you're on Apple or Spotify, just go to the podcast, Organized and Energized, and you can find it there.

Charmaine: Perfect.

Kathi: Okay, great. One more thing. I know you're the sponsorship queen. I had forgotten to ask you about that. So talk to me a little bit about it. If people are looking for sponsorship, how does it work? What's the first or second step? We don't have a lot of time to go in, but there are a lot of people out there looking for sponsors, so put it that way.

Charmaine: Absolutely. Absolutely. So sponsorship is a marketing relationship. And I say that right off the bat because a lot of people think that sponsorship is free money or a handout. It's not. It's a marketing relationship where you can work collaboratively with other businesses, or businesses that are larger than yours. The key is that you need to be aligned. There needs to be some alignment in values. There needs to be alignment in the objectives of why you're going to work together. But sponsorship can really be a way of helping small businesses grow their business monumentally and being able to tap into other people's audiences, quite frankly. So, a couple of things to know. I'll actually give you a link for an ebook, Kathi, that walks you right through our seven-step model. It shows you from start to finish what has to happen for sponsorship to become a reality. We need to research the companies or the businesses we want to partner with. We have to know in advance: how can we recognize a partner or a sponsor? It's more than just slapping people's logos somewhere. How do we recognize sponsors in meaningful ways? How do we build those relationships? How do we create opportunities in our business for sponsorship? My first 40 sponsors that I had as a small business: I had a clothing sponsor, I had a travel sponsor, a printing sponsor, I had a makeup sponsor. My salon would actually do my hair and makeup every time I was appearing on TV or at events. I had a health product sponsor, and the list goes on and on and on. So the big tip with sponsorship is that you always want to start local, with people that you know or have a relationship with, or brands and products that you use and love. A great little exercise is to look at your credit card statements and your bank account and see where you are spending money. Probably on your cell phone, probably on clothing, probably on going out for dinner or coffee. And these might be the very first businesses that you approach to be a sponsor or to collaborate with you on projects.

Sponsorship is a marketing relationship.

Kathi: Wow. Okay, that's great advice, and I know that people are going to jump at that. I'll definitely put that link in there. We all need partners who will help each other. Partners who will help us, and that we can also help grow their base. We all have more assets than we think we have as far as working with sponsors, and you taught me that as we went through last year. So yes, I really appreciate your time. It's been really a pleasure. I can't wait to watch this movie, Back Home Again. I love forests and I love animals, and we're approaching fire season, for those out here. Well, everywhere. You know what, fire is fire. Thank you, Charmaine, for your time.

Charmaine: Thank you so much, Kathi.

Kathi: And until next week, gang, I'll be back and I'll see you then.