How to Simplify Your Business So It Runs on Less with Melitta Campbell

Kathi: Hi everyone. I am back with Melitta Campbell, and I'm very excited for you to get to know her and get to know a little bit more about her expertise, because she has a lot to bring forth to the world as we women entrepreneurs are taking the bull by the horns and getting down to business. So, thanks, Melitta, for being on the show. I really appreciate your time.

Melitta: Oh, you're welcome. I'm really excited to be here too. I think we're going to have a really juicy discussion today.

Kathi: Absolutely. Down to the juice. Let's start with how you got into doing what you're doing. So, give me a little bit of the backstory. I've read a lot on your website, and it's really quite interesting. What did you do before you became a business coach for women entrepreneurs?

Melitta: So I started my business 14 years ago. At that time I was head of communication for a private bank based in Geneva in Switzerland. And I loved my role. I was doing communication coaching for leaders, the top 60 leaders across the bank, which I was really enjoying. I'd put some masterminds in place to help them, and I was also even running a women's network, which was really helping to change the culture. Because the culture here, I went from London to Geneva thinking Switzerland was very progressive, and found myself landed in the 70s. So the women's network really opened the door to more women progressing in their career. And so the culmination of all of that I really enjoyed. I'd just been promoted to report directly to the CEO, so I could really have more influence within the bank as well. But when my daughter came along, it's like, okay, it's an hour commute there and back from where I live to the office. I worked 110%, and I just couldn't see myself either seeing myself for fleeting moments every day or not doing a good job at work. I didn't want to have that compromise. I don't think you could work in communication and not be there and build those relationships. So I decided to start my own business instead. It sounds like a very formal decision. It was more a lunch with a friend: maybe I could just write a newsletter or something. And I landed my first client, because she happened to know someone that was looking for someone to write a newsletter. So I just started there, really easy. It was work that I could do in my sleep, but I could do very well. So it was the perfect start point. But of course, very quickly I was really involved in more communication strategy for lots of Fortune 500 companies and leaders, and leaders of the UN. It always made me giggle, because I was writing on their behalf for these most powerful men in the world while bouncing a baby under my desk. It was quite surreal. But yeah, I just wanted flexibility and to keep my hand in. That was really my big motivation at the time. I didn't necessarily have a big higher vision per se. But as I got into that business, about eight years in, I really started to burn out. I didn't burn out, but I was really having the signs of that. My health was suffering. I wasn't sleeping well. And I started to think, well, what am I even doing? I wasn't loving my work. It wasn't giving me energy and joy anymore. So I took a step back and re-evaluated my purpose, and then thought, my skills are all around communication and marketing and creating meaning and value in the marketplace. And I saw so many other women around me through the networks that I had, and they had amazing talents and skills and backgrounds and everything, but they were really struggling to communicate their value and charge their worth and work with enough of the right clients to have a viable business. And I thought, you know what, actually that is where I can have the most impact. That's where my heart really feels at home, and I can use all of my skills to date to help them. So that's how I got to where I am today.

Kathi: That's pretty amazing. I have a friend who's a physicist from Switzerland, and he said the same thing, and he's a male in that world. And he left because he said it was just too back in the 70s, not really moving forward as far as business culture goes. So I can understand that. But good for you. So you started writing a newsletter. And women out there, listen to this. You're not stuck in your corporate culture. You're not stuck in your job, right, Melitta? You can branch out and you can do whatever you want to do. So you actually started writing newsletters for the companies that you were in your association with, and for your former boss, was it or not?

Melitta: No, the company local to me was Nestlé. Their headquarters is just down the road from where I live. So I had a few friends that worked there, and that's how I just happened to have lunch with someone, saying, you know what, maybe I could just do this. And she was like, I know someone looking for someone to write a newsletter. So she put me in touch, and it turned out to be someone that I knew through the local connections I had. And also, what I had been doing for close to 10 years before that was co-founding and running the Geneva Communicators Network. So I had a good network in the communication field. So as soon as I went out to them and said, oh, actually, this is what I'm doing now, even though marketing is my background, I never actually needed to market myself very much, because I had a good reputation and the work came to me. And I started just doing newsletters. But I think the people that I worked with, through the questions that I asked and the approach that I had and the way I delivered my work, could tell that actually I could do a lot more for them. And then they were like, actually, can you do this, and can you do that? And I got involved in some extraordinary projects in the end. So it was really fun for a while. But as I say, it was just a big step away from my core purpose, really.

Kathi: Yeah. And it's interesting, though. You said a couple of things that really struck a chord. You said that you could do a newsletter in your sleep, and I think that's one of the gifts that we can find. We all have things that we can do in our sleep, which I think is a God gift, and an easy way to start a business. If you can do something that's effortless, that's one way to figure out what you might want to do. And then, don't you think whatever you think is easy to start?

Melitta: Exactly. And I think you don't have to start some huge enterprise. Just start with one thing, and do it on the side if you're in a job and you're not quite sure if you're ready to take that leap. Just do a little thing on the side for yourself. Because I feel if you studied entrepreneurship for 10 years and then started your own business, you would then realize, oh, actually, I need to know all of this. So just starting somewhere teaches you the mindset you need. It teaches you to start making the right connections. It teaches you what you like, what you don't like, what your purpose is, who you like working with, your approach. There's so much you need to learn about how you want to do business and how you want to show up and what resonates with your ideal clients. Your business evolves. So just start anywhere. It really doesn't matter where you start, because wherever you start is never where you end up. Particularly if you're coming from corporate, I think we're trained to think small in corporate. We have these SMART objectives, which tell us to go for what you know you can achieve. But as an entrepreneur, that's so boring. Why would you wake up every day to do something you know you can do? You really want these DUMB goals, the dream-based goals that unify your values and your vision and help you grow. So you want something that's going to push you. So just start and see where you end up.

It really doesn't matter where you start, because wherever you start is never where you end up.

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Kathi: Yeah, I love that. And the reason it was so seamless for you, too, is that you did something from your heart center when you created the women's network. I think that was just something that you did because you felt that it was needed, and you gave it from your heart, and that grew, and that allowed you to catapult into what you were doing. So tell me about when you landed, not your first newsletter client, but your first client as a business coach. How did that feel? Tell us a little bit of the story about your first client.

Melitta: So it was interesting, because for a long time people were coming to me and asking me, well, will you coach me? Will you help me grow my business? And I said, no, I can't do that. And then there was a point where, in the period of three weeks, really quite close together, I had six women come to me. And the last one was like, but you're the only one that can help me. You have to do this. And I was like, okay, well, tell me a bit more about where you're struggling. And then I started to go to the market and find out, well, what was the problem here? Why couldn't they build this business? And it was just that lack of knowledge of what a business is. And part of it is that they didn't trust themselves, because they thought, oh, I don't have a business background. And actually, a lot of the work I do with my clients is to help them discover that they really do know what it takes to build a business. Particularly if you've ever raised a family, it's the same thing really. It's just organizing and strategizing what you want to create and where you can add most value. And I find it comes very naturally to a lot of women once they have the framework. So I provide the framework to help them really dig deep into what exactly it is that they offer. What's valuable about that to them? Why is it important for them to bring that out, and why is that valuable for their clients? And really see where those two things overlap, and then build everything in that space: their products, their marketing, their messaging, their processes. And then, because everything is coming from the same place, it's all aligned. It doesn't feel like everything is bolted on. Sometimes when I work with my clients, they've got to a stage where their business feels a bit like a kids' art project, where they've just been sticking glittery things everywhere. Well, that looks cute, I'll stick it there. And they're like, well, this doesn't really represent what I wanted anymore. So we just strip it all back and refine it. So often I don't need to teach them anything, just guide them to creating something that feels cohesive, feels valuable, feels meaningful, and therefore they can implement it with confidence. And they need that so much.

Kathi: I found that with a lot of my women clients that are coming from corporate, as you know, in corporate the systems are already built. The systems are built, and all you have to do is follow them. But you don't really take time to glance around and see, even things as basic as how the office space is designed, because you just walk in, sit down, and there it is. And then I find when women go into their own home office and they start their own home business, they don't quite know how things should be set up, or what's the best system to use, just like you said, or how to integrate them all. And, this is key, without getting lost and stuck in the muck of their stuff, and still being able to have the business of their dreams and not just be stuck with multiple systems, as you say, that are patchworked together. I'm so in alignment with you on that, and that's something that everyone needs. So if you had to reinvent all over again, and I know there's really no going back, what would you do to catapult yourself faster into what you're doing right now? Is there anything that you would change with your path?

Melitta: Yeah, great question. In one way, no, because as I say, it's all been an evolution. Looking back, people are like, oh, well, my career path looks very logical, but at the time it didn't feel that way. Every new step felt very brave, very new, very like, oh, can I really do this? And then you dig into it, and looking back, it's like, well, of course I could have done that. But you have to take each step to grow and push yourself, and then see, oh yeah, of course I was always going to be able to do that. But at the time, as I say, it felt very courageous to do. So in a way, no. But if I were to start all over again, I would definitely strip things back and do things in a much simpler way. But it's only through hindsight that I've learned that. And I would definitely ask for help. In my first business, I came so close to burnout because I was trying to do everything myself. I was putting everything into my family, everything into my clients, and I left nothing for myself. And the longer I do this, the more I realize that if you really want to create success on your own terms, it starts with self-love. You have to love and respect yourself enough to put the boundaries in place and to say, no, I'm not doing that, or certainly not now, because this is what I'm working on. And to strip everything back. And now I just have 90-day goals, and I just work to one thing over those 90 days, because in 90 days you can really achieve something great. How I'm going to do that in a year, it's just too far away. But three months is not too far away. It's a nice chunk of time. You can really get your teeth into it. And I tend to do one core business project and one core personal development project within that time. So I'm continually growing. I'm continuing to make progress. But it's taken time to strip things back and say it's okay just to do one thing, and then move on to the next project, because, as I say, everything builds then. So yeah, if I was to start again, I would just keep it simpler.

If you really want to create success on your own terms, it starts with self-love.

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Kathi: Keep it simple. Yeah. Simplify, simplify, simplify. I like your 90-day idea, because if you don't stop to really plan what you're doing, you'll just keep building systems after systems after systems, and then all of a sudden you're lost in your systems, right? So that's brilliant. So do you have a favorite hack that you tell entrepreneurs that want to create more freedom? I know we touched on it a little bit already. If they want more freedom in their business, besides simplification obviously, what would you say?

Melitta: I think the hack would have to be to get a coach or mentor, or at least to surround yourself with people. I've got a business bestie who's amazing. We get together once a month and we have a CEO day, where we dig into our plans and give feedback, and that's a great way to keep things simple. I remember the last one, she was like, wow, I'm doing this. I was like, well, why don't you just do this? And she's like, you're a genius. And then she did something very similar for me. I was like, well, I'm thinking all of this. And she's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Just this bit. I was like, you're so right. So we really help each other to keep things simple. And on paper, we're even competitors. We work in the same sort of area, same level, same clients, but very different approaches. So it's been really nice to have that sort of collaboration, if you like. So that's been a help, but also having a business coach. In my first business, if I had known that there were things like business coaches, and I had believed that I deserved one and invested in myself, then I think I would have had a very different experience in that business. I would have created something very, very different. But when I decided to pivot into business coaching, the first thing I did was get a business coach and work together with her to say, well, this is the challenge that these women have. I think I can help them with this sort of structure and framework. How do I turn that into a business? And so we worked together, and within, I think, six weeks, I had my first client, because it just went so much faster. And I think women learn very well from women. We like to communicate. We like to not just dive in, but check with people a little bit and round things out together. So having a coach or a mentor on your side, I think, is just invaluable. So that would be my number one hack. And I know I'm a bit biased, being a business coach, but honestly, I don't know any coaches that don't have a coach, because they understand the value of coaching and how much of a shortcut it really is.

I don't know any coaches that don't have a coach, because they understand the value of coaching and how much of a shortcut it really is.

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Kathi: Yeah, absolutely. And masters hire masters. It's one of the chapters in my book. The most masterful people always have other people that they've employed to help them see what they can't see. So for sure. I love the idea of you and your girlfriend meeting once a week and doing a CEO day. Or once a month.

Melitta: Yeah. It's great, and it really helps move our business forward exceptionally. I'm also in a mastermind as well, and I love that. Again, it's full of business coaches, so they're sort of competitors, but we really help each other, and everyone's had such diverse experiences that we all support each other and come away with something much, much better. So by working together, we're all really helping to have more impact together. So it's a really nice experience.

Kathi: What I think is so impactful about that is that there's enough business for everybody. And even if you're doing the same business, it doesn't matter, because different people are going to resonate with different people. And there's more than enough business out there. Especially right now, with 60% of the women, at least in America, leaving their corporate jobs and going into creating their own business. That alone should show you that there's enough. No matter what you want to do, there are going to be other people out there that are doing it better, maybe not as good, but people who are looking for support and calling on the support of each other. Again, the little thing, together we're better, but it's true. And especially as women, I love the fact that you're a proponent of sharing and collaborating with competitors, because guess what? We're not ever really competitors. We're here to support each other. And one person that loves me is not going to love you, or one that loves you is not going to love me. It's all the same. Doesn't matter, because there's enough business for everyone. I think that's a really valid thing for all of you to keep in mind as you're listening to this podcast. There's more than enough, always. Always enough business. Don't be scared to collaborate with people that are doing what you do. I found that my most nurturing relationships are actually other professional organizers, and I interview a lot of professional organizers on my podcast. We all come from a different way, right? We say it differently. We think it differently. We teach it differently. I'm sure that your coaching is completely different from your friend who you do the CEO day with, which I think is a spectacular idea. I might have to start implementing that myself.

Melitta: Yeah, exactly. And the more you have these conversations with your so-called competitors, you realize that you are actually offering something very different. You come from very different backgrounds. My business bestie, her background and how she came to do what she does is completely different to my background and how I've come to get to where I am. And so her clients and my clients are completely different women. And now I'm starting to branch out to men. I feel in the last couple of years men have changed as well, and for the first time I can see them trying to achieve exactly the same as the women were, in a more gentle and authentic way. And I love that. No one is the perfect client, but I'm finding more and more men that I feel would really resonate with my work. I'd love to support them, and I think they're going to work really well with my group as well. And the women in my group before were like, oh, no, no, we only want women. But now they're saying, well, actually, I think a bit of diversity would be really helpful and interesting. So it's always evolving, and that's what keeps it interesting.

Kathi: Do you find that your clients are of similar backgrounds to you, and your friend's clients are of similar backgrounds to her, and that's why you resonate?

Melitta: Yeah. She's got a slightly more hippie background, and I've got more of an academic background, and I think our clients definitely resonate with that. And a lot of my clients, you said it earlier, when you work in corporate, you have that structure, that framework. And so a lot of my clients are experts in branding, marketing, communication, and they're like, we should be able to do this for ourselves. But when it comes to marketing yourself and selling yourself with no resources, no existing framework, it's hard. So you do value having someone else to bounce off of. And so a lot of my clients are a little bit older. They have had a very successful corporate career, but now they're ready to create success on their own terms, to take all of that amazing experience that they've had and the training and put it to use in a way that they want, or to consult with a framework that they've created that they believe is going to have more of an impact than the status quo within corporate. I just love the diversity as well. You never know where someone's going to get to, or just how amazing a business model they're going to create. I just believe in their skills and their passion and their vision, and it's always a great experience.

Kathi: Yeah, I love that we're all individuals, and I love watching the metamorphosis of clients as they get it. It's so much fun, right? You see them go, oh wow, and they create something even more marvelous than was imagined by anyone, really. That's the great thing. So let's take a step back and talk about when you felt stuck and you just felt overwhelmed and you were burned out and you were stuck in busyness, as I call it. What did you do? What was the tool that you found that pulled you out of that stuck-in-the-muck stuff and helped you reinvent and move into the next level of your career?

Melitta: It's hard, isn't it? But I think when you are stuck in the mud, you really are stuck, and you can't see a way out. And it took me eight years to wake up to the fact that I was facing a burnout. But I think I was aware of it for a good couple of years before that. I didn't dare think that I could do something different, because I thought, well, if I don't do this, what would I do? And I don't want to go back and have a job, and I don't want to do nothing. And I just really was closed off to any other situation. So there's that great quote by J.K. Rowling, when she said rock bottom was the solid foundation on which I could kick off, and I felt that's where I got to. It was a breakdown in the school car park. It was one really silly thing, but it was just one thing too many, and I was crying uncontrollably in my car. And a friend just got in and said, go home, rest, take whatever time you need. I've got the kids. I'll take them for as long as you need. Like, thank you. And it was that point where I was like, I can't continue like this. Sometimes the universe is always giving you these messages, and sometimes it's just a big frying pan to the head: wake up and do something. So at that point, I just asked for help. I said to my husband, how can I change? This is what I want, but I don't know how to get there. And he said, well, I can do this for you. I was like, oh, well, that would really help. And I started to ask. And then when I was telling my friends, well, I feel I want to do this, I don't know how to do it, and how am I going to manage all of this? they're like, well, I can help with this, and have you spoken to, and all these resources came flooding in. And I think that's the first step: just having the courage to have the conversations with other people and ask for help, and then things start to come. But at that point, there were two things. There was a quote I read by, what's his name? Richard Branson. How did I forget his name? And it said, if it's no longer fun, stop doing it. And I was like, what I'm doing really isn't fun. So that was almost the permission to say stop, because it was earning a lot of money. So to just stop doing that and do something completely different and start over felt very scary, but that was the permission I needed. And then, as I was trying to redesign how I was going to work, a mentor came up and said, always remember, you can't ride two horses. So that really taught me just one thing at a time. So I just focused on one thing: one market, one product, one type of customer. And my first day that I opened doors, so to speak, I got four clients, and that's all I needed. So I was like, okay, this can be a thing. And then it's grown and evolved from there. But I'm always in the back of my mind thinking, how could this be simpler? Remember, you can't ride two horses with one backside.

Kathi: I love that. I love that, too. Yeah, that's good. Okay, so do you have a favorite organizing hack? I have to ask this, because we're all entrepreneurs and we all have things that we really love to groove on. What's your favorite thing to keep yourself organized and streamlined? What do you use, a hack or a software or whatever?

Melitta: Well, I have to say my new electronic notepad is brilliant, because I'm old-fashioned. I like to take notes, and it sinks into the brain better that way. But I had notes everywhere. I was very good at filing, but not at remembering my filing system. So things got filed away and forgotten. But now I can actually access my notes and use them. So that's probably my latest hack, I think. But also, to always ask myself, how can this be simpler? When something is feeling a bit overwhelming and you can just feel it all bubbling up, like, hold on a minute, it shouldn't feel this way. There's a simpler way. And then often I just go for a walk, and it goes, just do this. And, oh, okay.

Kathi: And that's getting out of your own way too. If you feel yourself all bottlenecked, it really is good to just go outside. Seriously, a lot of my podcast guests said, oh, I just get up and walk away. I just get up and walk. That's a hack for me. So if you feel yourself getting stressed, changing your environment is a good tip for sure. And I like what you said earlier about how if you say what you need, people will always come to your rescue. It's ironic, and it's true. You just have to say, hey, I need help. Even if you don't know what kind of help you need, you'll get that input from people, just as you did, I think. So good for you. And it sounds like you've made a lot of scary jumps, and it's always worked out for you.

Melitta: Yeah. And I think you have to have a bit of faith that it will work out. And I feel now that there is no such thing as failure, because even if it doesn't work out as planned, you always learn, and often you come away with something even better. You're in a stronger position. You've had to make relationships in a certain way that's given you more strength. So there's always an upside. So knowing that there is no failure really helps with the courage, I think.

There is no such thing as failure, because even if it doesn't work out as planned, you always learn, and often you come away with something even better.

Kathi: It reminds me of Thomas Edison. After trying electricity so many times, he's like, I'm 20,000 times closer to coming to the solution, right?

Melitta: Yeah. I think as an entrepreneur you have to be a little bit stubborn and hang in there and just keep going towards that vision, and you will get there. And, as I say, in particular, if you get support or you ask for help, you'll get there a lot quicker.

Kathi: Yeah, isn't that the truth? Okay, so what's the best piece of advice that anyone's ever given you?

Melitta: Oh, I think it's that horse quote.

Kathi: The horse quote. That's a good one. I read one that your dad said, though, on your website.

Melitta: Yeah, he did. He said, whatever decisions you make, make sure it results in choice. And that is incidentally also the best answer to an interview question ever, where would you want to be in five years' time? Well, I don't know, but I hope to have a choice. But seriously, thinking, okay, well, if I do this, how is it going to help me grow? How is it expanding my network? How is it giving me new skills or exposure? And not necessarily knowing where it's going to take you, but trusting that it's taking you somewhere better than you are today, and it is all progressing in the right direction. And once you have your visions and values clear, so you have that compass, it really takes you on this wonderful journey. We never quite know what the future's going to be, but we do know that we have more control over our actions today. And if we're taking those right actions today, then that future is really going to be something worth looking forward to.

Kathi: Yeah, you can always tack and change direction as long as you have the choices and you haven't sealed yourself in. So your dad's very smart. I like that quote. Okay, I know you have something valuable to give to the listeners. What is it that you're going to offer here?

Melitta: So I see a lot of business owners, as I mentioned, that start getting in a bit of a pickle over their marketing, overcomplicating it or jumping in too soon, focusing in on the tactics before they have a strategy and a plan. And I've put together a course, and it's a course I now give away for free, because I really want them to have that understanding of what marketing really is: that it's not just Google ads, that there's a lot more to it, but also that it can be a lot simpler than they think. And it's even got a marketing plan outline and a video walkthrough. So they really come away with a plan and more confidence to take those next steps in growing their business. And so that's something that I would love to give access to your audience. I called it Marketing Made Simple, and it's 12 videos that will really guide you in setting up a solid foundation for your marketing and understanding what it is, so you have that confidence that you can go ahead and do marketing that feels good.

Kathi: Well, it's super valuable too. I really appreciate you offering that, because it's tried, tested and true tactics. So you can be confident going ahead and downloading Melitta's gift, knowing that she knows what she's talking about, because that's her jam. So go ahead and download it for sure. We'll have the link below the podcast so that you can go ahead and grab it. So is there any one thing that I should have asked you? We've covered a lot of ground. Is there anything that you want to say, or anything that I should have asked you that we want to get into on this podcast?

Melitta: Gosh, we really have covered a lot, haven't we? I think one thing is to give yourself permission to succeed on your own terms. I'm an introvert. Lots of people don't necessarily believe that these days. And I grew up labeled a shy girl, and for a long time I allowed that label to hold me back. And I tried to operate in a way that just didn't suit my personality. I was pushing out there, trying to network and speak like an extrovert, and of course it just didn't feel right. It really jarred at every opportunity. But then I did some self-coaching as part of a leadership program, and I came up with what I call my victory framework. It really broke down what felt good to me, how I could progress, how I could create my goals in alignment with my vision and my values, and do things differently. And it's amazing. Once I started to do that, I became really known for my network, when networking and public speaking were something that I really struggled with for a very long time. And now I've published a book, A Shy Girl's Guide to Networking. I'm a TEDx speaker coach. So it gives me a lot of joy to share that journey with people, just to encourage more people that there is never one way to do anything. You can absolutely do it your way. And if at any point it doesn't feel right, it doesn't feel smooth, then you've got to take a step back and ask yourself why. Could I be doing this differently? Does it have to be that way? And again, even go to your network or your coach and ask for support in developing your own system. But you have my permission. You really absolutely can do things your own way.

There is never one way to do anything. You can absolutely do it your way.

Kathi: Yeah. And as a shy girl turned master networking girl, I think that you speak your truth there. I had this conversation with someone over the weekend: when you're trying to fit into someone else's mold, or you're trying to be what people think you should be, like, you're the shy girl, oh, I can't talk, or whatever, you're not yourself. So therefore you're not going to be able to catapult into what your true career will be and could be. The possibilities are endless, because we're all unique. So I love the fact that you can take shy and now be the master networker and the TEDx trainer and all that good stuff. It's fantastic. Every one of us has something in us that can do that. But I agree with you that the only way you can really come down to that is to embrace who you are. You can be shy and you can be a master networker. You can be outgoing and learn how to listen. There are all the different things that we can learn. What other people are saying that doesn't really fit in the mold, well, just don't listen to them.

Melitta: I agree. And I think as women, we get that a lot, don't we? Oh, I should do this. I must do that. I have to do this. And we feel very duty-bound to a lot of things, and that goes against us a lot. So we just need to extract ourselves a little bit and become sensitized to those words and say, hold on a minute, do I really need to do this? Do I really need to do it that way? And the answer is always no.

Kathi: Find your voice and speak your truth and be yourself. That's the most important thing. And for those of you, we'll go back to the top of the interview: if you're looking to branch out, find what you can do naturally, that's very, very easy for you, and most importantly something that you really love to do, and start there. Start small and branch out and just see what happens, because you'll be amazed at the metamorphosis that your career will take you along. And I think as a parent, I'm sure you know, you don't get instructions on how to be a good parent. Just like as an entrepreneur, your business is your baby, and there really aren't that many solid blueprints for doing that. It's all an evolution of who you are and how you're going to create your own business. So that's the fun, isn't it?

Melitta: Yeah, absolutely. As I say, I'm the business coach and I guide people in setting up their own business, but even I can't tell them what that's going to look like, because I give them a framework so they can really dive in for themselves and take that logical structure. But every single business comes out different, and so much better than they ever imagined. And it's amazing to see them flourish, and they start to expand what they believe is possible for them. And I think that's a real gift of entrepreneurship.

Kathi: Yeah, absolutely. Well, we will end on that, because there is a true gift to being an entrepreneur, so go ahead and follow your passion. And if you want to learn about marketing, make sure to download Melitta's training, because it's videos and instructions that are tried, tested and true to help you market your business. So thank you so much for your generosity and your time, Melitta. I really appreciate it. It's been fun talking.

Melitta: Yeah, you're welcome, Kathi. I've really enjoyed it.

Kathi: Until next time, gang. We'll see you later.