How To Overcome Imposter Syndrome And Grow In Confidence With Ruth Gilbey

Kathi: Hi everyone. I'm with Ruth Gilbey today. Ruth specializes in helping freelancers and business owners adjust their mindset and their marketing so they can get fully booked with clients they love to work with. Today we're going to talk about the imposter syndrome and how to grow in confidence within your business. So, welcome to the show.

Ruth: Thank you so much for having me, Kathi. It's great to be here.

Kathi: Absolutely. So, tell me about your journey, from when you started, Ruth, to where you are now. How did it all happen? Tell us the story behind it, Ruth.

Ruth: Okay, I'll give you a potted history, Kathi. Well, I went freelance, I guess, in 2011, after working in business operations. I was a bit of a high flyer, high achiever. Then I thought, I can't go back into the corporate world, and started thinking, what can I do? I got the digital marketing bug and started freelancing in digital marketing, and that's what I did, and lived happily for quite a few years. But I was really that feast-and-famine freelancer, just saying yes to everything. Even though I was a marketer, I had no website, no online presence, no strategy, nothing for lead generation. It was just word-of-mouth referrals, and I was wondering why these contracts weren't 100% lighting me up. And then I started to have this light bulb moment that I am not doing my best work for my own business. I'm doing it for all my clients.

I am not doing my best work for my own business. I'm doing it for all my clients.

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Ruth: But when I had that light bulb moment, another thing came along. I was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2017. So five years ago, diagnosed with breast cancer. I felt like I was just at this point, or maybe I was kidding myself, where I was about to make a shift, and along came breast cancer and I thought, "Oh my goodness, that's it. I'm never going to have the business I want. This is a curveball being thrown at me. There's no way I can juggle a business." So I really slowed down everything. My clients were wonderful, and I started to outsource things to people and stepped away so I could have my treatment. And I just got so much clarity from slowing down and thinking. It was like the reverse happened. I started to go, "Hang on, you've been so busy in your business, just in it, trying to wear all the hats, trying to do everything." I was pretty burnt out. I hadn't stepped away, and I'd never outsourced anything before that. And it was actually after having breast cancer that I was like, "Okay, I've seen that there's another way. I can have a successful business. I don't have to do it all myself."

Ruth: So I said, "Come on, Ruth. You've got a chance here. Start playing bigger in business. Start taking yourself seriously and start doing your best work for your own business." Because I was making a lot of other people successful and rich, and for a long time I thought I was the person that was supposed to do that for people. I didn't think it was possible for me. And I thought, come on, you can do this. And I haven't really looked back since. I didn't go back to that old way of working. I changed my business completely.

Kathi: I think it's so funny. There are a couple of things that you said. Number one, I think nature throws us a punch. We need it. And you were on the wheel, right? You were on the wheel, doing everything for everybody. And then nature's like, "Wait a minute. Stop. Slam on the brakes. It's time for you to do something for yourself." And even though a cancer diagnosis is really scary, it really helps you evaluate, doesn't it? Where you are and what you can get rid of, what you can outsource, like you said. So I think that happens quite a lot, and that was probably a gift in a way for you, that you were able to take a step back and have the time to heal and have the time to help yourself get that clarity, and help yourself become the successful marketer that you helped everybody else become, right?

Ruth: Absolutely. It was really interesting. If anyone listening to this can have that wake-up call without something like that happening to you, that's what I would say to you. If there's been a niggling feeling, a niggling voice saying, "This isn't really what I want to do. This isn't lighting me up," if you're feeling like that, listen to that voice. You can do it without that. I work less than I did before, and I do what I love doing. I'm much more successful than I was before. The income's better, and I'm making more impact and working with the people that I really want to help.

Kathi: I absolutely love that story. I think it does take pivotal moments for us to have that wake-up call. And we wish all of you out there listening that you don't have something so dramatic and drastic happen in your life, but take a step back. If you're feeling overwhelmed and overworked and underpaid, take a step back and see if you're in your business as opposed to on your business, right? If you're working on it as opposed to being in the "in it" part of it. Okay. So you stepped back, you made some systems, you outsourced. Now let's talk about one of your clients. Tell me a client story of who you were able to help better and more efficiently after the shift happened.

Ruth: After the shift happened, who I worked with changed. I actually did a coaching diploma after I'd finished my cancer treatment. I was like, "This is what I want to do." I did the coaching diploma, and then it was a calling: I wanted to work with other women. I had felt for such a long time that I hadn't been tapping into my own purpose and potential, and I really wanted to help women do that. And what I was finding was that when I started to work with women on their strategy or their marketing, because that was my background, business coaching and marketing, I realized that I couldn't serve them properly without understanding coaching as well. Because it was the blocks. They didn't need to learn another strategy. They needed to believe in themselves.

Kathi: Yeah. Exactly.

Ruth: They needed to work through the steps like I had. And I needed to hold space for them. I needed to ask them the right questions. So I was like, "Oh, okay. I don't need to learn every strategy. I need to meet them where they are, and I need to help them." So that's why I did the coaching diploma.

Kathi: Yeah, absolutely. And then you talk a lot about imposter syndrome and getting over that imposter syndrome. Can you talk about that? We all have different ideas of what that means, but how do you help your clients overcome that aspect? Because we all go through it. I think every single one of us has imposter syndrome at some time during our career as entrepreneurs.

Ruth: Always. Apparently 85% of people suffer from imposter syndrome. And some of the top, Meryl Streep's talked about having imposter syndrome, lots of big female celebrities. What's really interesting is I think we can reframe it somehow. For a long time I didn't ever suffer from imposter syndrome, and I was quite smug: "Oh, I'm not suffering from imposter syndrome." But that's because I was in the comfort zone. And there's a quote, I don't know if you've heard it, that says if you're not feeling imposter syndrome, you're in the wrong room. So I think that's a really good reframe. Number one, it's human. It's natural. It's actually a sign. It's a clue. Be curious about it. What's going on? What is it showing you? And you won't stay in that feeling of imposter syndrome forever. The reason why you're feeling imposter syndrome is because something is new and you're not doing it on autopilot. It's not comfortable, and it won't always feel like that. The more you do it, it won't feel so difficult and so hard.

The reason why you're feeling imposter syndrome is because something is new and you're not doing it on autopilot.

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Kathi: I love that. That gives us all permission to feel that way from time to time. That's huge. If you're not feeling it, you're not growing, right?

Ruth: Yeah, absolutely. And be compassionate with yourself. Don't add to it by going, why am I feeling like this? I know it's really easy for me as a coach to just sit here and say these things, because I've done the training and I've been coached. It's so easy for me to see that. But your thoughts do not define you. If you can find some sort of separation from them, and that's why journaling is so powerful, and coaching is so powerful as well, to actually step back and write down: Why am I feeling this? What is it showing me? What is it telling me? What's going on here?

Kathi: Yeah. I always think about the objective observer. If you can be the objective observer and watch, and as coaches we can do that in a heartbeat. I think why journaling really works is because if you journal in a way that you are observing your life, you're like, "Oh, wasn't that interesting? And isn't it interesting the way I thought about this, and I thought about it this way." And then you read back, and you are the observer, and you have much more objectivity on where you're really at than just being in your head, playing that little loop all the time.

Ruth: Absolutely. Yeah. I've got some more tips as well for overcoming imposter syndrome.

Kathi: Let's hear them. Let's hear them.

Ruth: The other thing is that I think we put so much pressure on ourselves to know everything. We can buy and consume things, and I think it's allowing yourself to say, "I don't know that yet." I know this, this is what I know well, and I don't know that yet. It's okay to say that, to take the pressure off and say that you don't know it all. I think that's really powerful. Again, it's letting go of the pressure on yourself. I remember I used to feel like I had to know everything. Why? Why do I have to know everything?

Kathi: Yeah. It's not even realistic anyhow.

Ruth: No, we put that whole big burden on our shoulders. We've got to know it all. I think a lot of women do that, though, don't they? They put this pressure on themselves: "I can't do that until I've done X," or "I couldn't possibly talk about that," when everybody has life experiences and something to share and tell.

Kathi: Yeah. It reminds me of something someone told me a long time ago: you are an expert in a lot of things. Being an expert means you know a little bit more about that subject than the person standing next to you. So therefore everyone is an expert in something, and in multiple things. We're all experts in multiple things. And to feel that we're not because, oh well, someone else knows so much more about it, doesn't matter. You look at the person beside you that you would be helping, and if you know how to give them that step up, then you are an expert in what you're talking to them about.

Ruth: It's really interesting that you brought that up, because I think that was one of the key things when I launched my business that helped me get out of my own head. Because of course there are loads of business coaches out there, there are loads of life coaches out there. Why would someone want to work with me? I could get stuck in this loop and tell myself that. And the big thing that I focused on was: it's not about me, it's who I can help. And I really focused in on that, rather than thinking about how am I going to look when I post this on Instagram, or when I do this live, or I do this thing. It's like, how is this useful to my ideal client? I think we all do this when we first launch a business, or even now: we think about what our friends are thinking, our family are thinking, our peers are thinking. If we can try and go, they're not our ideal clients, and just home in on who you're trying to help and serve, that really helps.

It's not about me, it's who I can help.

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Kathi: That helps a lot, to definitely drill down into the client that you want to help. Who do you resonate with? And when we talk about marketing all the time, I was like, okay, you're your own avatar. I've always thought that I am my avatar. The people who I can help are people that are like me, because we're going to resonate, right? You don't want to have a market that's completely not even someone who you are, because how are you going to have the proper discourse or know how they're going to phrase things or think about things in the same way? So that's a takeaway I took away a long time ago. Okay. So you said you have another tip for overcoming the imposter syndrome.

Ruth: Yeah. So number one was know it's natural. Number two was be honest about what you do and don't know. Number three was focus on who you can help. And the fourth one, the final one that I've got for you, is the big one. I say this about everything. It's one of the biggest learnings, and I remember hearing this: let go of the outcome. That's such a powerful thing to think. It's great if you can let go of the outcome. If you can say, "Oh, well, what did I take from that?" With my clients who I'm working with, we do goal setting. We talk about goal setting, but I say it's about the journey. By striving for something, you get the data, you get the information, even if you didn't hit the goal. It isn't just about that. So if you can let go of the outcome and actually go, I'm striving for that, and then I've got more information at the end of it, that's really powerful.

Kathi: Take that off. Yeah. Let go of the outcome. I like that. And it's more about being present, too. Being in it that day, as deep as you can go that day towards where you're heading, and being there then, as opposed to looking at, oh, what's it going to look like at the end? I think by future casting you can't really be your best self anyhow, because you're always in your head five steps forward, as opposed to being very present with who it is you're working with or what it is you're working on. That's fantastic advice. We're going to try to put those four little tips underneath the podcast. We'll see if that happens. Listen to that, girls. Okay. What is the one lesson that your business has taught you that you think other people would benefit from? We've already talked about a few things, but do you have anything additional that your business has taught you the hard way?

Ruth: I think there are so many, but I'm trying to think. Sorry, could you repeat the question again, Kathi?

Kathi: What's one lesson your business has taught you that you think everybody should know? And you already said one: stop and outsource, for sure. Step back, get clarity and get rid of some stuff. What would be another lesson that your business has taught you personally?

Ruth: I think it follows on from outsourcing, really. When you do make that jump to outsourcing and working with other people, it's great. I've got a team of contractors that I work with, and a benefit of working with them was that they keep you accountable, because we've all got our part to play, haven't we, in our businesses. We record our podcast, it goes to someone else, someone does that thing for you, distributes it, etc. So the accountability from your team is amazing. But the other thing is that when you take on contractors, don't create a role for yourself where you become the delegator, because that just fills your time. So get that right hand to help you stay organized and help you organize your contractors as well, like that online business manager, that integrator. They are a key hire in your business and a key way to really keeping your business organized. Otherwise you create a job just delegating. You could just do that, couldn't you? It so easily could happen. And have those systems and processes as well.

When you take on contractors, don't create a role for yourself where you become the delegator, because that just fills your time.

Kathi: Yeah, the systems and processes. I totally agree. And that's something that I think a lot of people don't understand, Ruth, and it's smart for you to bring up: you don't want to be the delegator. You want to empower the people to support you. You want to let them figure out how they can best help you and create the systems for that. And guess what? It's a win-win for everybody, because then they can move that skill on to somebody else as well. I have a new person that I'm training who is learning everything, and it's like, okay, what can you do for me? You show me what you think you want to do and what you can do, and let's make it happen, right? It's so much more empowering to think about your subcontractors and your contractors that way. I think it's very beneficial for all parties concerned.

Ruth: Definitely. I think it's so true, Kathi. And it's also about finding the right fit. If you are a lean, small team, and I'm still a very lean, small team, I need people to be self-starters. I need them to take ownership. I need them to know we have a kind of routine. The other thing is I try and life-proof my business as well. The pandemic, if that's taught us anything. I'm always a little bit ahead: batching, being ahead. A few weeks ago, luckily, I could flex some things in my business because I'd made room for it. So make room for life.

Kathi: Yeah. Make room for life. And don't pack it in. Okay. So let's talk about organizing hacks. What hack do you use to stay organized? Do you have a favorite tool or anything that you use organizationally?

Ruth: ClickUp is actually one that I use. Do you use that?

Kathi: No, I don't use ClickUp. Let's talk about it.

Ruth: Yeah. So I tried a lot of different ones. I tried Trello, and they're all great, and they're only a tool. You have to use the tool. But there's something about it. My online business manager says it's like Asana and Trello had a baby. That's what ClickUp is. But I like it because you can use it like Trello, you can use it like Asana. I use it as my CRM as well. We use Zapier and link things to it, and it creates things in there. It's huge what it can do for your business, and you can start using it for free, which is amazing. But what I like about it is you can chat to each other within it, so it's good for that. It's good for attaching tasks, and it's just really good for contractors, teams, remote teams. It's brilliant.

Kathi: Yeah, that's really good. There are so many tools out there. I personally do love Trello, and I've worked with WorkFlowy. I've dabbled with ClickUp. What I would tell anybody listening is dabble in all of them. Almost all of them have free trials, and see which one resonates with you, because some people are very visual. Some people like lists that they can expand and not expand, like WorkFlowy. So it's all different. But do the free trials. And I heard that about Asana, that if they had a baby, it's ClickUp. I think that's hilarious. But that's a good tip.

Ruth: Yeah. The best tool is the one you use, isn't it?

Kathi: Absolutely. It's the one that works. It's like your second arm. If you're in there and you're feeling like, "Oh my gosh, I totally get this one," that's the one you should use, no matter what anybody else says. Somebody else is going to say, "No, I use Asana. No, I use WorkFlowy." You know what? Whatever. It doesn't matter. Just use the one that you can actually use and like to use, because it ends up being a huge part of your company once you get the system going.

Ruth: It does. And I think don't spend your time just changing tools, because you're always going to be in that setup phase. Get using it. Get moving.

Kathi: For sure. Okay. So I know you have a valuable free resource that you're going to offer the listeners here. Let's talk about that a little bit. What do you have?

Ruth: So it's really popular. I've created a lot of downloads and freebies for people before, but the one that's really flying at the moment is called the Secret Base Rate Calculator. It's like a money mindset tool. It's boosting you to charge your worth, charge the right amount of money, but it also arms you with the information. You fill it out, put your information in, and you'll actually design the rate that you want, and how much you want to work as well. It incorporates all that. So it's called the Secret Base Rate Calculator.

Kathi: I love that. So they download it, and then they just put in their dreams and aspirations and the numbers that they want to reach, and it helps them figure all that out.

Ruth: Yeah. And I think it sums me up. I'm a combination of mindset and practicality as well, so it's got all of it for you. It helps you, because I'm all about you being really in alignment with what you charge. And I really believe that you shouldn't ask other people what you should charge. You should be the one that's equipped. You should look at the benchmarks and everything, but it's all about you believing in the rate that you want to put out there. I could go off on this, but I just think we can adopt other people's beliefs about what we should charge, when this is about arming you so you're confident. If it doesn't resonate with you, no matter what number you're saying, it's not going to work. They're going to know it's not resonant, and they're not going to be the buyers. They're going to be, "It's too high, it's too low, I don't understand. Does she not have self-worth?" or "Who does she think she is?"

Kathi: It doesn't matter, because if you just state your price and you know that's what it should be, there you are. So this is a really, really valuable tool, Ruth. I really appreciate that. Make sure that you all download that, because I think that's going to be really, really helpful for you as you move forward. And again, it's kind of funny that you have that tool, because it does also address the imposter syndrome.

Ruth: Absolutely. Yeah, it does, doesn't it? That's right. It's a big thing: what should I charge? I think the other thing that I would say about getting that right as well is that your prices are your branding. They're part of your brand and who you are. You don't want to be the Walmart, for your American listeners, or the Primark for a UK audience. You want to attract the right people. You want it to feel right, but you want to get the right people into your world.

Your prices are your branding. They're part of your brand and who you are.

Kathi: Yeah, absolutely. So it's called Primark in London and the UK.

Ruth: Well, actually, I think Walmart is more like Asda in the UK.

Kathi: Yeah, that's funny. We all have one, right? The big box place. Okay. So is there something that I should have asked you? What's the one question I should have asked you that we have not covered here in this chitchat?

Ruth: Let me have a think.

Kathi: Or anything that you really just want to talk about that we haven't discussed.

Ruth: Yeah. I think the last thing that I would just say to everybody is, when I was launching my business, I was so terrified of making that first step. And I'd just go back to reiterating what I said earlier, which is you're not supposed to know it all. You're not supposed to do it all, as well. And I think we don't make that first step. We stay stuck because we stay in the learning zone. I think we stay in the learning and the research zone. I think a lot of women can end up doing that, learning and researching, and I would say: learn, implement, learn, implement. Implement it into your business. Take some messy action, and learn by putting things out there.

Kathi: I love it. Take some messy action. Just take action, because it doesn't have to be messy. Take action.

Ruth: Yeah. No, I love the messy. I mean, it will be messy.

Kathi: When we first start anything new, it's always a little bit not quite perfect, and that's the way it's supposed to be. And what I took from what you said is, if you learn, learn and then finally implement, maybe you've learned things that people don't even care about. If you learn a little and implement, then they're like, "Oh, I want to know this." Then you know what you need to learn next in order to help your client. So don't get stuck in the learning zone, women. It's time to just move forward and take some action. You're my kind of girl. Action takers.

Ruth: Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Kathi: Well, I really appreciate your time, and I love the valuable free resource. I'm going to download it and check it out. And we'll put links to some of the products that we talked about so you can check them out. But meanwhile, have yourself a fantastic night. Thanks for seeing me at night, Ruth, in the UK.

Ruth: It's a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Kathi.

Kathi: Absolutely.