How to Build a Customer Base AI Can’t Steal with Allan Ngo

Kathi: Hi, everyone. I'm excited for you to meet Allan, my friend. We're going to talk about not letting AI take over and give you content and copy, and about content and copy that you can actually use yourself. Allan is a marketing expert, so I'm really glad to have you on the show, Allan. Welcome.

Allan: Happy to be here, Kathi, and awesome to meet everybody listening.

Kathi: I love this. This is a great conversation that everybody needs to learn about, and I know you have some tips to help us. So talk to me a little bit about your path as a solopreneur and entrepreneur.

Allan: Yeah, it's a little messy. I'm not a type A personality with a specific goal, even back in college. I think how I landed here was really understanding what I don't want, rather than having a clear picture of what I want. I finished college with a degree in accountancy and eventually went into corporate banking. At the same time, that was around when the book Rich Dad Poor Dad was coming out, and the thought of passive income was alluring for me and my college friends. So my buddies and I started a franchise business in food and beverage at the same time. We thought that's business for beginners, having a franchise business, but apparently there are so many things going on. It's plug and play, technically, but you still have to manage it. And I got burned out doing both. Employment was burning me out. Managing the franchise was burning me out. So it's like employment and entrepreneurship weren't meant for me. I was in that lane of being an educated bum. I didn't know where I was going. That's when I discovered an alternative, which is the internet. Back then it was around 2010, and there were still a lot of scams in making money online. I started off with what they now call Upwork; back then it went by a different name. That's when it opened my eyes. When the money hit my bank account: oh, the internet thing is real. So that's when I started doing it on the side, first as an affiliate marketer, sending emails, selling other people's products. That's how I got started with writing. It opened up my mind that, hey, I can sell just by being myself, because I used to have this idea that you really have to be great with people, you have to be an extrovert. But I realized, hey, you can do it at home without showing your face. And that opened up a lot of opportunities for me. Later on, I kept selling digital products for over 10 years, and now I use words and emails to make knowledge travel. Basically, I help folks in the education space make a living as a one-person business. So that's my quick evolution and how I landed here right now.

I realized, hey, you can do it at home without showing your face.

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Kathi: I think that's really great. When you said you didn't know what you wanted, but you knew what you didn't want, I think that's so true for all of us. It's so easy to know what we don't want, but it's really hard to know what we do want. And for you to try some things and go, nah, don't want that, don't want that. So were you in college when you guys did the franchise, or were you working already in banking, and then you and your buddies got together and said, oh, we'll just have a franchise?

Allan: We were already working. I guess when we were about to graduate, we were already thinking about it, but we officially started it while we were already working.

Kathi: Right.

Allan: Sometimes you're like, why was I thinking all this?

Kathi: But I get it. You have to do what you know. You have to do things to know what you don't want. It's interesting. I know several people who started by marketing other people's products, but you're the first person that really came out and said that's what I did to begin. And I think it's a great way to start as well. I would expect that as you see other people's products and you know what's working, you become pretty good at wordsmithing. When you started, did you start creating your own products then?

Allan: No, it took me a while. I was doing affiliates for six to seven years while having a full-time job helping in our family business.

Kathi: Oh, right.

Allan: And I did that out of necessity, because it was the most efficient thing I could do, because I would do it at night. Back then I was running my ads. It was simpler back then to run ads, build my list and just send emails. So that's the entire business model. But after a while, you realize that if they stop the affiliate program, or they start to change direction, or they change the commission rates, that affects you. And at the time I had just gotten married, so I was looking for stability, and I thought, hey, I need to have more control as well. I think 2016 or 2017 was when I started my own offer. So it took a while. I had a slow burn.

Kathi: Well, every entrepreneurial path starts slow. Even if we want to jump into it, if we jump into it fast, it's probably not a good idea anyhow. So going slow and steady, I love that. So was your bridge that you started your own product to sell, or that you started your own consulting to help people sell products?

Allan: Gotcha. That's a great question. I started off with digital products, because when I started, I was still working, so I couldn't necessarily trade time for money that way. My first course was about email marketing. I'm based in the Philippines, so we're typically a few years behind with marketing. I was just teaching what I know. Back then I was already doing affiliate marketing for five to six years, and I just figured, hey guys, this is what my results are with affiliate marketing. And I pre-sold it via email. I didn't have a sales page.

Kathi: You're so smart.

Allan: I don't have any design skills either. So I just leaned on what I can do: hey, here's what I did for the past few years. I didn't even have all the modules laid out. I just had a vague idea of what the week-to-week would be. I had to figure it out on PayPal, because I didn't have a checkout page. I had to figure out on PayPal how to get a direct link for them to pay, and I just dropped it there. I think I had eight people, no, 11 people join me for around, if I'm not mistaken, 200 bucks each.

Kathi: That's amazing.

I didn't have a sales page.

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Kathi: And that's really just pre-selling, basically, right? You didn't even have the product.

Allan: I didn't.

Kathi: Well, it was in your head. You had the product.

Allan: Yeah. And I think once I sold it, that's like the light under my butt that I've got to get this going. When people paid me, I had to, because in our family business we work Mondays to Saturdays, and the workshops were on Saturdays. So I had to file a leave with my dad: hey, this is what's happening. So it forced me to get into digital products once I sold it. And later down the line I realized that one of the best ways to actually start a digital product is to get paid for it first, because then you know if they want it or not.

One of the best ways to actually start a digital product is to get paid for it first.

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Kathi: If they're not buying it, then what? I did that early in my career. I created a course, and I thought, this is the best thing, everybody needs this. But I didn't test it to see if people really wanted it or not. I mean, that was very smart.

Allan: It was born out of, I'd say, being lucky to understand that concept, and also being lazy enough. I don't want to do something without any guarantees. I guess that's the accountancy training, being conservative with numbers.

Kathi: Yeah. And you were married, and you had a limited amount of time, so you had to make sure that your time was going to give you money. Otherwise, why do it? I think it's a great piece of advice for everyone listening: if you have a concept, try to test it. Make sure that people want it before you do it. I think that's a great tip. So what's been one of the challenges that you've come up against, and how have you managed to balance it or overcome whatever came at you at that point?

Allan: I guess the biggest challenge for me is this. I'm based in the Philippines, but I was raised in a traditional Chinese family in terms of culture, and I'm the eldest son, and we have a family business. The expectation is for me, for any eldest son, to take over. So in some ways that's been the biggest challenge for me, in terms of my identity and my role. I did my role for six to seven years, but at the same time I knew in myself that the type of business we had wasn't really a good match for my personality and my skill set.

Kathi: Mm-hmm.

Allan: And the way I overcame that was, I knew where it was coming from. It's for my future as well, to have a predictable source of income, something that is established. That's where the concern comes from. And for me, that's why I put in the hard hours, sacrificing my recreation time and relaxation time at night to build this, to show proof to my parents as well that, hey, I'm not just playing around with this internet thing. It can produce results. Some of it was to demonstrate in real time, like when commissions were coming in, treating them to Sunday lunch, small things like that, so it would feel like, okay, this is something real. Or when I got invited to speak, because locally I'm one of the early ones to do internet marketing. Not the first, but one of the early ones, so there were fewer people to invite to speak, and I got the opportunity to speak on stage, and I would invite them. Or if I got featured in a newspaper, I'd make sure to slowly show them, make sure that they see it. And I guess that carries over to how I do emails too. Like we were talking about copy, and it's show, don't tell. Don't just say that you're good. Don't just say that you can do this. Demonstrate it. I didn't know that concept back then, but I just knew from my parents that they're skeptical unless they see things in real life. And they're trained, because of entrepreneurship, not to take people at their word. You have to see them and test them over time. That carried through for me, and that's what I've been applying even for my copy right now.

Don't just say that you're good. Don't just say that you can do this. Demonstrate it.

Kathi: I think that's fantastic. You did it from necessity, however, it really is a smart way to go about business anyhow. So did you get out of having to take over the business? Is one of your siblings in it now, or how's that working?

Allan: What's funny is the first time I attempted it, it didn't go well. I think it took over a year to eventually get them to accept the concept. And right now, all three of us are online. I have to say that I'm pretty lucky as well with my parents for being open to change. My mom had this good perspective, especially when the pandemic happened. All the traditional store businesses had been affected, and that's when I guess she had this epiphany. We're not a big corporation; we're a physical mom-and-pop store. She was thinking, hey, at least none of the three kids are relying on the store for their income. So at least we have diversification. They can all stand on their own two legs. That's also one of the things I want to focus on this year: the transition, if they do plan to retire, how to transition the assets, yada yada yada. That's why I'm designing my own business to be able to run by itself and give me more free time, and to plan for my daughter's future. I'm a big believer that the business should support your life instead of the other way around, because with a traditional business, we're open Mondays to Saturdays, including holidays.

Kathi: Yeah.

Allan: So sometimes on family vacations you're incomplete, or if we need to visit a relative, somebody has to stay in the store. It came to a point where I was asking, is the business supporting us, or are we adjusting our lives to support the business? So that's the direction I want to have for my own.

Is the business supporting us, or are we adjusting our lives to support the business?

Kathi: That's fantastic. So are you saying that all three of you, your brothers and sisters, are all internet marketers?

Allan: Well, my sisters work with me, and my brother works as an online translator for Mandarin Chinese.

Kathi: Oh, fantastic. So it's home-based.

Allan: Right.

Kathi: That's fantastic. I love that. And now you can set aside time to take care of your parents as well and help them transition into an easier life. That's super smart. That's quite an obstacle to overcome, just culturally. As the eldest son, I know that. You're it, dude.

Allan: Yeah.

Kathi: Good job on getting that out of the way. Okay, let's jump over. I got a little sidetracked thinking about your story. I know that now you help solopreneurs and other entrepreneurs do similar things and create a life for themselves. Tell me how it works, and what's your favorite client story from the people that you've worked with?

Allan: That's a great question. We have a code. My site is Digital Solopreneur, and for the clients I work with, I have this program called Effortless Earners. One of our codes there is having the business support your life instead of the other way around. Some of the audio listeners might not see this, but behind me is a whole-year calendar, and I've marked out important days, birthdays, including our dog's birthday, because I want to visually see my priorities and plan the business around them. The way we do it is, I don't have a big dream of creating an eight- or nine-figure business. My dream is I have a freedom number in mind, and I want to have a small team that can reach that without sacrificing, because the bigger you get, the more complex a business can get. And I know there are people who would like to shoot for the moon, and they're not necessarily who I'm working with. I'm working with folks who want to have the business optimized for their lives.

Allan: I do have a couple of favorite client stories, but one all-time favorite is a guy who helps people pass an IT certification. All the trainings are in English, and they are super complex words. So he localized the language and sold ebooks for around $10. People would print them, and the printing cost would be more than the digital product. I helped him with his copy and his structures, and he sold enough that he was able to replace the income of his wife, who was working overseas, and bring her back. They have one child, a son, and he was able to reunite their family, and he was able to buy a dream property just outside the city. That's from selling that ebook and eventually a course. So that's one of my favorite ones. I have another one who's local, but she's working in the Netherlands, and she helps people with their careers, and she was able to multiply her income. She has her work, then her side income, which is her consulting for careers. Her earnings there are what she sends to her parents, and it got to a point where her side income grew almost 5x. No, around 3x. And since her contribution to her parents was growing, she would see the credit card charges, and she was like, okay, the lifestyle is getting too high. Let's not get used to this too much. So some are a bit more comical than others, some very life-changing, but both equally memorable.

Kathi: I think that's fantastic. And that someone can do that with a $10 ebook is just really, kudos and props to you for helping that person do it, because so many people have tried to make their fortune, so to speak, with little ebooks, and it's hard. I don't know how you managed to do that for him, but that's fantastic.

Allan: I think a lot of it, for us, is getting them their first win, to make them believe that, hey, this can happen. And that client eventually taught himself advertising as well, because he already had a foundation. So kudos to him too, for expanding his skill set. For me, my first sale, I can remember, was January 2013, and it was an $8 commission from an ebook called Chinease. It's about language learning. It's spelled C-H-I-N-E-A-S-E, like Chinese and easy. And that opened my mind that, hey, I can sell. From there, I shifted my identity from somebody who just counts people's money as an accountant to, oh, okay, I can really make money from this, just writing words on the screen and sending them to people I don't know. And I think that can snowball into a skill set, a skill stack, that can really change your life.

Kathi: Absolutely. For those of you listening, I would love for you to connect with Allan, because if you're looking at doing anything online, even just the languaging that you're using is so very important. We'll put the link down in the show notes. Continuing on, I know that you have your year at a glance at the back. What other organizing hacks do you use to run your business right now?

Allan: Lovely, lovely. A lot of it is really boring. It's really just scheduling and sticking to it. There are two sides to it. For example, for myself and my wife, a couple of years ago we had some rough waters, with a condition with my daughter, and it really affected our relationship. We've been together since 2000, so we were 20-plus years in our relationship as a couple plus marriage. And one of the things that really helped us was doing breakfast dates, where we go out, no phones, we just talk to one another, and committing to it. Committing to it every week, same time. The same with workouts. And with food, scheduling when I prepare my meals, so that when it's time to eat, I know the calories and stuff, rather than eating out. It's the discipline of doing that and not having to decide every minute what to do. That was very big for me, because when I was in corporate, what I took for granted was structure.

Kathi: Ah, yeah.

Allan: And when I started doing things on my own, I had that hustle attitude: just get this done, just get this done. When I started doing it full time, just get it done worked for maybe an hour or two, but if you have to scramble for eight hours, yes, you move, but you move in eight different directions.

Kathi: Yeah. I call it busyness. Being busy, but you're not doing business.

Allan: 100%. And that's when I thought, okay, I need to make it more boring. That has really helped me, because it removed my decisions. And on the flip side of that, and related, is treating empty spaces in your calendar as appointments too.

Kathi: Right.

Allan: What I mean by that is, when you see an empty space, you want to fill it up with something.

Kathi: Yeah.

Allan: But when it's empty, it's meant to be empty. It's for you to relax, to do something else, to play with your kid. For me, recently I picked up Brazilian jiu-jitsu, because I've always wanted to do martial arts since I was a kid, but I was a sickly kid, very unfit. So now is the best time. I'm only going to get older. I'm 41 this year. And I guess for entrepreneurs, it's to be open to doing first-time things, doing things for the first time and having that joy.

When it's empty, it's meant to be empty.

Allan: And I think that also translates into copy, because you can document what you've been doing as part of your copy, because that's something AI can't manufacture. That's something that you tell them, and they see you not just as an expert in stuff, but as a protagonist in the story. That's why we love watching Netflix and reading stories. Showing a picture of me being vulnerable, getting thrown around, creates some, hey, there's something happening in this person's life. They're not just a talking head. If I preach, for example, that empty spaces are appointments too, but people always just see me working, then there's a disconnect. But if they see me use that time to actually do something for the first time, and I document it, then it only strengthens the message. The message should be true in fact, but I'm also showing, not telling, which circles back to giving proof to my parents that this internet thing is working. It's just continuing on. And that's how you can tell stories without having to be a wordsmith: just by documenting the unique things that happened to you and relating them to your business.

They see you not just as an expert in stuff, but as a protagonist in the story.

Kathi: Yeah. And that leads us back around to creating content that there's no way AI can bootleg or generate. So your best piece of advice for people as they're creating content for themselves is to be real. Show yourself doing things other than working, which I think is a great tip. What else would you add onto that?

Allan: One tip that I would give, for when they're running out of things to talk about: one of my hacks is going to my phone, clicking the gallery and looking at my photos. Because we don't take photos of random things. We only take photos of things that, subconsciously, have a story in them. We take a photo when we meet up with our friends, or when we see something unique. For example, I recently took a cab, and that cab had a special feature. The driver was telling me you can press that button; it's like a 911 button. So okay, I took a photo of that, because that's something new. I wasn't thinking of using it for something, but when I looked at it one day: okay, I can use that as an angle. For example, hey, if your business runs into trouble, do you have something like this to help you out? So I can pivot it to my offer being like a 911 call, for example. Images are a great hack, and I sometimes upload the image to AI and prompt it: hey, come up with an angle with this image. So that's a tiny hack. It shows, don't tell. It documents, and you have proof, because only you have that photo. There's always an idea bank in your phone without you really knowing it.

There's always an idea bank in your phone without you really knowing it.

Kathi: That's brilliant. Now I'm going to start doing that. That's a great tip. Wow. I feel like we could talk for hours about this stuff. I'm sure you have more. I love that, because you're right. Whenever we take a picture, there is something behind it, a reason that we took the picture.

Allan: Right. There's a reason. There's a trigger for us to take photos, because even myself and my wife, we're not big selfie people, even when we travel. We have to remind ourselves to do it. So when there are those times when you pull it out by yourself, there's something that triggered it. There's a reason behind that, and that reason is typically something unique. And that's what stories are. These are things that are out of the ordinary. The thing might be mundane, but the situation, the context, is different. And a lot of great stories are based on conflict. If there's a movie without a bad guy, it's going to be boring. Who's going to watch that? Which goes back to the emergency 911 button. The reason it's interesting is, hey, if conflict happens, if an emergency happens, you have a 911 button. So there are some baked-in elements of good stories that trigger us to take photos, but it happens unconsciously. Even meeting up with friends, there's a reason we want to take photos of them, and there's a story behind how you met each one. I had a recent physical meetup with my clients, and I used this angle. One of our philosophies, or for me personally: I want to work with clients that I can sit down and have coffee with for hours. That's subconsciously my criteria.

Kathi: Mm-hmm.

Allan: And what dawned on me when I looked at that photo was, we actually had lunch and sat around for four hours, just sharing stories. And this is the embodiment of it for me. It just dawned on me that, hey, this is the type of people I want to attract. And that's the photo.

Kathi: Yeah. Dream.

Allan: Right. When I say that, I'm not blowing smoke. I really met up with them and just hung out, and I realized, hey, I love hanging out with them. I can see that in my images, and that's what I can share. We all live busy lives. So rather than using that time to think and come up with something, just look at what you've done and talk about what you've done.

Kathi: Mm-hmm. I love the way that you said that adding space doesn't mean that you need to fill it, and that it is space for a reason. Something that I talk about all the time with solopreneurs and entrepreneurs is scheduling time with your partner, and the fact that you have breakfast with your wife, I think, is so important. When I work on time management, I'm always scheduling date night. You need date night regularly. And I say same time, same bat channel, so that it becomes a routine, just like you've set up in your life. Routines do pay, for sure. I'm sure that your relationship has flourished, and now you actually have time to talk to each other about the important things without being two ships passing in the night, which happens all the time. My family is all entrepreneurs. It's the same thing. Do we need to have a meeting to talk about something? No, let's just have date night and have fun. Just like you with your friends at your lunch, you can sit four hours and catch up and talk about all the stuff that's exciting to you.

Allan: Exactly. And even during our weekly dates, I have a couple of questions that we ask each other. So even that is a little scheduled, but not too rigid. The two questions are: what are you proud of this week, and what kind of support do you need? It's also my way, a little secret here, to share some of the things that I want changed in the household without being too forward with it. If she asks me what support I need, I want her to ask that of me. So I bake that into our conversations, but it's also for me to understand that from her side. We're not too rigid with it. What I wanted to do as well, especially with the first question: I'm more into self-development and personal growth than my wife is. So that's my way for her to look back and feel proud of herself, because she can be hard on herself, raising a kid and stuff. I want her to get the chance to be proud of what she's done without feeling like she's bragging, because I'm the one who asked. I think that has been healthy for us, to put a little bit of structure in our date without being too rigid about it.

What are you proud of this week, and what kind of support do you need?

Kathi: I think it's great. It's a way to also, like you say, ask for things without nagging. It opens up the conversation. Wow, you're such a good husband. People need to follow this routine. I think it's brilliant. I will add that into what I recommend for my couples as well, to have those two questions. We do it during family meetings, Sunday nights, where everybody gets to say their thing, but date night is important as well, or date morning, date breakfast, as you have it.

Allan: Right. We're more morning people.

Kathi: Yeah. Exactly. Not me, but you can have all that. Let's see. As we wind down, I know we have a free offer that we want to give people, but is there anything else in the conversation that you feel is important for listeners to learn or to hear?

Allan: I think for me, especially when we are all entrepreneurs, rather than just tactical, what I felt was useful for myself and for my clients is being able to forgive ourselves for our past. What I mean by that is, sometimes when people enroll in one of our programs, they carry the baggage of the past, in the sense that they enrolled in courses and got nothing out of it, and they feel guilty enrolling in something new or trying out something new, because they carry that baggage: hey, I did this before. And for some, that's family finances that they used to enroll in a course, and there's that guilt for them. A lot of the people I work with are one-person businesses, and there's that comparison, there's that regret about the past. I remember this one scene from the Netflix documentary Stutz, by Jonah Hill. He's talking to his therapist, if I'm not mistaken. There was a time when Jonah lost quite a bit of weight, but he was really harsh to his younger self, the one that was obese. They had a cutout of him when he was bigger, and he was asked to talk to his past self in a compassionate way rather than a critical way, because of all people, Jonah knows what that guy felt: insecurity. So why always be harsh? If anyone should have the most compassion, it's you. And I think we should also have the most compassion for our past self, because we know how hard our younger self tried, the insecurities, the fears. They were going through hard stuff too. If we are kinder to them, I think it allows us to move forward, because we know our future self will forgive us too. So I think that's something that has been helpful for me, and helpful as well for the people I've worked with.

We should also have the most compassion for our past self.

Kathi: I agree. Many of us buy things, and then they don't come to fruition for one reason or another, and then we do hold it against ourselves. So I think that's really good, sage advice for all of us. We've all been there. We've all bought stuff that we shouldn't have bought, or that didn't work or didn't fit or whatever, and we need to give ourselves grace with that. That's fantastic. Now, I know that you have something that you're offering here to the listeners. What would that be?

Allan: Yeah. We're big on helping businesses maximize lifetime value, but not by squeezing every penny out of a person. It's more to offer the most help we can give. Sometimes making an offer, writing a message to make an offer directly to a client, can be a little awkward. You don't know what to say. So I created a GPT. I call it the Revenue Relay GPT. It writes customer re-engagement messages so that you can turn one-time buyers into repeat customers, offering the right thing at the right time, so you don't feel salesy and pushy. It will give you several messages that you could send depending on what your offer is.

Kathi: I love it. I want it.

Allan: Perfect. You can grab it at digitalsolopreneur.com/kathi, and we'll send it to you directly in your inbox so you can use it right away.

Kathi: I love it. We'll make sure to put that in the show notes. Everybody needs this. So go ahead and download it. We can all use a little bit of help with that, because the clients that you already have are easier, and they're the better people to stay with, the ones that you like. You might as well increase and continue the relationship with them. So that's valuable. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Allan: 100%. You're welcome.

Kathi: Well, this has been fantastic. You're such a pleasure to speak with, and I love what you do and how you've turned your life into a life that fits you. And here you are on screen, after saying that you didn't really want to be in front of people. Now you're talking and you're online and all that good stuff. What a change, right?

Allan: I love conversations. So, speaking with you, Kathi, and to your audience: you're not live here with us right now, but hello if you're listening. Thank you for making me feel welcome. You made me relax, and you really took care of me, so I enjoyed this conversation.

Kathi: Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you, Allan. And until next week, you guys, we're going to be back with another guest. Make sure to tune in, tap in, turn on. Give us a like if you like it, and subscribe to the channel. The more love you give this podcast, the better it's going to be. I'm open to all your comments, so put some comments below in the show notes. Until next week, we'll see you then. Thanks, Allan.

Allan: Thank you, Kathi.